No, Kevin Rose, Digg Failed Because It Ignored Its Community



This is a tale of hubris.

Over the next few days, expect to read many articles in many publications about Digg and what happened to it.

Once arguably the most powerful single website on the Internet, Digg was able to drive massive amounts of server-crushing traffic.

In recent months, however, Digg was sold away piecemeal to the Washington Post, LinkedIn and betaworks.

Why did this happen?

Because Digg decided it didn’t need or want its community.

My head nearly exploded when I read the headline in the Wall Street Journal, “Kevin Rose: Digg Failed Because ‘Social Media Grew Up’.”

Oh, REALLY, Kevin? That’s why Alexis Ohanian’s Reddit exploded in popularity during the same time period Digg crashed and burned?

Let’s get one thing straight: Digg failed because the powers that be completely blew off the community that had made it so popular and strong.

The Story of a Community

Jeff Bercovici of Forbes interviewed me, Andrew “MrBabyman” Sorcini, Muhammed Saleem and Daniel Honigman individually, and unbeknownst to one another, we all expressed similar frustrations with how Digg treated the community.

Of course, the Wall Street Journal is by no means the first news site to believe that Kevin Rose had nothing to do with Digg’s problems. A post on TechCrunch after Rose left in 2011 showed that at least some writers there had no comprehension what Digg was about, saying his departure was the “final nail in the coffin.”

By that point, users were, for the most part, happy he was leaving, because he’d presided over Version 4, which took all the power of the site out of the community’s hands and gave it to publishers.

To an outsider, that may sound laudable. But here’s the problem: THE PUBLISHERS DIDN’T WANT THE POWER. By this point, they’d already built communities on Facebook and Twitter and had no desire to build a community on Digg. They wanted the traffic they got from Digg.

That traffic had been declining even before V4, and then fell off a cliff after V4 launched.

Without the traffic, these publishers were even less likely to want to spend time building a community there. They hooked up their RSS feeds and ignored the site. They’d been so used to the traffic coming that when it stopped, they put their time and energy into other locations.

Reddit and the New Community

Meanwhile, Reddit had a resurgence and gradually began to catch up with, then surpass Digg in pageviews. And here’s the thing: While on Digg, most users happily used AdBlockPlus and never saw an ad. While on Reddit, most users disabled AdBlockPlus. They wanted to support the site that supported their community.

The site continued to support them by popping in ad units that were mini-games or pictures of puppies or camels or lolcats as a thank you.

Users spend a tremendous amount of time on Reddit itself, because users are able to post things that aren’t even links, but are “self-Reddits,” questions or comments that live entirely on Reddit. Comment threads are legendary and some just visit to read the comments on articles rather than the articles themselves.

Reddit’s popularity shows no sign of falling off.

So, Kevin, Digg didn’t fail because “Social media grew up.”

It failed because Digg didn’t grow up.

Cartoon by ncomment – War 3/3


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About the author: Amy Vernon (4 Posts)

Amy Vernon does stuffs on the Internet, currently as General Manager of Social Marketing for Internet Media Labs. She spent 20 years watching newspapers resist doing anything new and different that would have saved them, but she isn't bitter.


69 comments
AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@lttlewys @wordwhacker @ideabloke @grovo thanks, all! :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Hope you're well, Amy. Somehow don't see you much on here lately.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@ideabloke that happens sometimes - two tweets chirping past in the night ... I'm well, and you? :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Lovely, I'm having tilapia for dinner. Also connected with you on FB as well, drive safe & have a great night!

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@ideabloke oh my! Yes, eat. I'm off to bed shortly. :) gotta get home first, though. :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Twitter's rife with metaphors tonight! :p I'm winding down from my day, thinking of having dinner. Starving! :p

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@lttlewys @wordwhacker @ideabloke @grovo thanks, all! :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Hope you're well, Amy. Somehow don't see you much on here lately.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@ideabloke that happens sometimes - two tweets chirping past in the night ... I'm well, and you? :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Lovely, I'm having tilapia for dinner. Also connected with you on FB as well, drive safe & have a great night!

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@ideabloke oh my! Yes, eat. I'm off to bed shortly. :) gotta get home first, though. :)

ideabloke
ideabloke

@AmyVernon Twitter's rife with metaphors tonight! :p I'm winding down from my day, thinking of having dinner. Starving! :p

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Hi Randy, good to see you!!

ideabloke
ideabloke

@lttlewys likewise, still at the same number?

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Yes, Sir!!

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Outstanding!!.I'd be answering.then

ideabloke
ideabloke

@lttlewys Good to know! May be using it tomorrow. :p

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Hi Randy, good to see you!!

ideabloke
ideabloke

@lttlewys likewise, still at the same number?

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Yes, Sir!!

lttlewys
lttlewys

@ideabloke Outstanding!!.I'd be answering.then

ideabloke
ideabloke

@lttlewys Good to know! May be using it tomorrow. :p

Grovo
Grovo

@ideabloke @lttlewys @wordwhacker @AmyVernon This was another good one, from Business Insider: http://t.co/wJvwRlMh

Grovo
Grovo

@ideabloke @lttlewys @wordwhacker @AmyVernon This was another good one, from Business Insider: http://t.co/wJvwRlMh

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@nocturbulous Noc! :) Miss you, my Digg friend. I hope you're doing fantastically Down Under!

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@nocturbulous Noc! :) Miss you, my Digg friend. I hope you're doing fantastically Down Under!

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@courteneyervin Thanks, Courteney!

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

@courteneyervin Thanks, Courteney!

RogerDooley
RogerDooley

Digg's failure was indeed about community.  Muting the voices of the site's most prolific contributors was an enormous risk that didn't pay off.  Before that, though, things were far from perfect.  Newer members could only rarely get traction - many times, I saw a story that had been submitted by multiple members get no action until a power user submitted it under his own name.  Then, it would take off.  In a real community, a senior member simply wouldn't do that - he/she would seek out the earliest submitter and use that submission as a way of giving a newer member a boost in visibility.

 

There was no community feel at all when I joined in the site's heyday.  The core group of established users seemed to be more interested in boosting their own numbers than making new arrivals feel welcome.

 

I'd lay the blame on community architecture.  The initial design didn't encourage true community building, and allowed a powerful clique to dominate the site even as they built huge traffic.  The redesign alienated them, but didn't offer an effective mechanism to replace their contributions or stimulate community formation.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @RogerDooley You raise some good points, Roger, but it also wasn't as simple as that. The Digg algorithm didn't allow for a post to go popular if it had sat there for hours, undugg, and it gave no real way for people to see posts by n00bs. And multiple people shouldn't have been able to submit the same URL - if the site hadn't allowed that, perhaps things would have been different in that respect.

 

Having been on both sides of that equation, it was incredibly frustrating for new users. But old-time users were very open and friendly to new users and often gave them a hand. I never would have achieved what I did on Digg if "power users" hadn't befriended me and given me tips and advice. Too many new users didn't bother trying to become a part of the community, just wanting to submit a post and getting frustrated that it didn't go anywhere - but not bothering to digg or comment on content submitted by others.

 

Was it far from perfect? Absolutely. And a lot of that came from how the site was structured. Reddit did much the same thing as Digg, but a lot of the problems Digg had weren't possible on Reddit - or, at least, were far less common because the structure was so different.

 

And the mass exodus that happened after V4 launched was "regular" users, not power users. Most (not all, but most) power users stayed put, at least at the start.

RogerDooley
RogerDooley

Digg's failure was indeed about community.  Muting the voices of the site's most prolific contributors was an enormous risk that didn't pay off.  Before that, though, things were far from perfect.  Newer members could only rarely get traction - many times, I saw a story that had been submitted by multiple members get no action until a power user submitted it under his own name.  Then, it would take off.  In a real community, a senior member simply wouldn't do that - he/she would seek out the earliest submitter and use that submission as a way of giving a newer member a boost in visibility.   There was no community feel at all when I joined in the site's heyday.  The core group of established users seemed to be more interested in boosting their own numbers than making new arrivals feel welcome.   I'd lay the blame on community architecture.  The initial design didn't encourage true community building, and allowed a powerful clique to dominate the site even as they built huge traffic.  The redesign alienated them, but didn't offer an effective mechanism to replace their contributions or stimulate community formation.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @RogerDooley You raise some good points, Roger, but it also wasn't as simple as that. The Digg algorithm didn't allow for a post to go popular if it had sat there for hours, undugg, and it gave no real way for people to see posts by n00bs. And multiple people shouldn't have been able to submit the same URL - if the site hadn't allowed that, perhaps things would have been different in that respect.   Having been on both sides of that equation, it was incredibly frustrating for new users. But old-time users were very open and friendly to new users and often gave them a hand. I never would have achieved what I did on Digg if "power users" hadn't befriended me and given me tips and advice. Too many new users didn't bother trying to become a part of the community, just wanting to submit a post and getting frustrated that it didn't go anywhere - but not bothering to digg or comment on content submitted by others.   Was it far from perfect? Absolutely. And a lot of that came from how the site was structured. Reddit did much the same thing as Digg, but a lot of the problems Digg had weren't possible on Reddit - or, at least, were far less common because the structure was so different.   And the mass exodus that happened after V4 launched was "regular" users, not power users. Most (not all, but most) power users stayed put, at least at the start.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @pinkpackrat The thing that really surprised me about Reddit was that they made it so that it's very easy for users who care to suss out spammers and block them from submitting. Occasionally, that "power" is a bit heavy-handed, but the overall communities on the site more than make up for that.   Plus, their founder, alexisohanian , is far more interested in the community and in doing good with the fame he's gained.  

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @DanielHonigman You'd be surprised, Dan, how many publishers were still going to the Digg well until very recently, even. The SEO value alone was still enough to make it worth it to some.   For others, it could still bring anywhere upwards of 15K, with a little luck, though that much traffic had become exceedingly rare, with 2K-3K usually being the ceiling. But many publishers still didn't turn their noses up at those small traffic amounts were. Hell, some publishers still got 60K-80K total for the month as recently as last month from Digg.

Howie Goldfarb
Howie Goldfarb like.author.displayName 1 Like

I never want to meet you in a dark alley after I just dented your car and ran @AmyVernon

 

I never used dig or reddit or much for social or sharing. Was early with stumbleupon in late 2007/08 but stopped using it in 2009. I read so much but share so little of it.And based on how few people as a percent of readers click Like with Open Graph or the Tweet button I guess many folks are like me?

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @HowieSPM That was YOU who dented my car? *shakes fist*

 

Yes, many folks are like you. But what amazed me about StumbleUpon was how many "regular" people use it. My mother-in-law loves it, and she's not on FB or Twitter and doesn't really understand what I do. :)

HowieSPM
HowieSPM

I never want to meet you in a dark alley after I just dented your car and ran @AmyVernon   I never used dig or reddit or much for social or sharing. Was early with stumbleupon in late 2007/08 but stopped using it in 2009. I read so much but share so little of it.And based on how few people as a percent of readers click Like with Open Graph or the Tweet button I guess many folks are like me?

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @HowieSPM That was YOU who dented my car? *shakes fist*   Yes, many folks are like you. But what amazed me about StumbleUpon was how many "regular" people use it. My mother-in-law loves it, and she's not on FB or Twitter and doesn't really understand what I do. :)

DanielHonigman
DanielHonigman

Agree with you to an extent. Publishers thought, at first, they wanted the traffic from Digg. But after a while, they were generating so many PVs for a demographic they couldn't monetize. (Not to mention WSJ, etc. went behind a paywall.) Many then moved on from Digg.What do you think?

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

I just saw I never responded to this, @db4b8bf0d10b76e29a48500c95c10b41:disqus ! Many, many publishers stuck with Digg because the traffic served other purposes: SEO, traffic numbers for getting on better advertiser networks. Up until the end, many savvy publishers were still getting use out of the ever-dwindling traffic numbers.

DanielHonigman
DanielHonigman like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Agree with you to an extent. Publishers thought, at first, they wanted the traffic from Digg. But after a while, they were generating so many PVs for a demographic they couldn't monetize. (Not to mention WSJ, etc. went behind a paywall.) Many then moved on from Digg.

What do you think?

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

 @DanielHonigman You'd be surprised, Dan, how many publishers were still going to the Digg well until very recently, even. The SEO value alone was still enough to make it worth it to some.

 

For others, it could still bring anywhere upwards of 15K, with a little luck, though that much traffic had become exceedingly rare, with 2K-3K usually being the ceiling. But many publishers still didn't turn their noses up at those small traffic amounts were. Hell, some publishers still got 60K-80K total for the month as recently as last month from Digg.

pinkpackrat
pinkpackrat

right on the money(to coin a phrase) and Kevin Rose not only sold out the digg community but in the long run he has sold himself out too.  Everything online changes, but there are a few  things that don't change-- and one of them is that real online activity is driven by real people--You can't manufacture a viral video(though many try)    Reddit is, like the Velveteen Rabbit " real" because it is made up of people, real people, not paid spammers and RSS feeds.  Kevin Rose  took his money and ran in 2011.  I'm mostly gone from digg myself these days.  No point in looking back. I'm moving on.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon

I'm sorry I never responded, @80fac12867b59df22a81f94307e3b53f:disqus ! Amen, sister!

pinkpackrat
pinkpackrat like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

right on the money(to coin a phrase) and Kevin Rose not only sold out the digg community but in the long run he has sold himself out too.  Everything online changes, but there are a few  things that don't change-- and one of them is that real online activity is driven by real people--You can't manufacture a viral video(though many try)    Reddit is, like the Velveteen Rabbit " real" because it is made up of people, real people, not paid spammers and RSS feeds.  Kevin Rose  took his money and ran in 2011.  I'm mostly gone from digg myself these days.  No point in looking back. I'm moving on.

AmyVernon
AmyVernon like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @pinkpackrat The thing that really surprised me about Reddit was that they made it so that it's very easy for users who care to suss out spammers and block them from submitting. Occasionally, that "power" is a bit heavy-handed, but the overall communities on the site more than make up for that.

 

Plus, their founder, @alexisohanian , is far more interested in the community and in doing good with the fame he's gained.

 

Trackbacks

  1. [...] one thing: those kinds of decisions, along with other design-related moves that Digg made, arguably poisoned the site’s relationship with its community to the point where many core users left — in many cases for Reddit — and the [...]

  2. [...] one thing: those kinds of decisions, along with other design-related moves that Digg made, arguably poisoned the site’s relationship with its community to the point where many core users left — in many cases for Reddit — and the [...]

  3. [...] one thing: those kinds of decisions, along with other design-related moves that Digg made, arguably poisoned the site’s relationship with its community to the point where many core users left — in many cases for Reddit — and the [...]